Rev. Jason Stellman Feb. 5, 2007

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Welcome to Twoth.com we are speaking with Rev. Jason Stellman Pastor of Exile Presbyterian Chruch, PCA in Woodinville, WA.

The Rev. Jason Stellman is a native of Orange County, California, and became a believer through the ministry of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa in 1989. While under the care of Calvary Chapel he served as a missionary and church planter in Uganda (1991-1992) and in Hungary (1994-2000). Since coming to understand and embrace Reformed theology, Pastor Stellman received his Master of Divinity degree from Westminster Seminary California, where he studied under such scholars as Dr. Michael Horton, Dr. W. Robert Godfrey, and Dr. D.G. Hart. He lives in Woodinville, WA, with his wife Alida and their daughter Ainsley.

Welcome to the Twoth Rev. Stellman, long time no see. It is great to have you on the "show" and we appreciate your willingness to answer a number of our questions. Let's get to it:


Chris: Born and raised:

Rev. Stellman: Orange County, CA (also known as "The OC" by people not from there).

Chris: Now residing:

Rev. Stellman: Woodinville, WA

Chris: Favorite book(s):

Rev. Stellman: As far as fiction goes, I love The Lord of the Rings trilogy, as well as The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Sallinger and A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole. Theological favorites include Herman Ridderbos's The Coming of the Kingdom and Paul, Meredith Kline's Kingdom Prologue, D.G. Hart's The Lost Soul of American Protestantism, and Michael Horton's A Better Way: Rediscovering the Drama of Christ-Centered Worship.

Chris: Quote that stirs your heart most:

Rev. Stellman: "This dirge will not last long, but will soon drown in a song not sung in vain." Rich Mullins

Chris: Dead theologian influences:

Rev. Stellman: John Calvin, Zacharius Ursinus, Geerhardus Vos.

Chris: Living theologian/pastoral influences:

Rev. Stellman: Meredith Kline, Sinclair Fergusson, Michael Horton.

Chris: Last time we talked children were not part of the picture, how has having your daughter Ainsley changed things for Rev. Stellman?

Rev. Stellman: Well, I've never been the emotional type, but having a daughter has made me more caring, I hope. Having a family has made me a bit more pastoral and sensitive (although I'm still only half as sensitive as a normal person).

Chris: What's funny about you being, "half as sensitive as a normal person" is I find that quality is what actually attracts many to you. I think it causes you to speak with a stone-cold truthful reality that captivates anyone in your presence. It's hard to describe on paper/html. If you've spent any amount of time with Rev. Stellman you'll know exactly what's being described. Not to get into any form of "Simony" but could I get some of that mojo?

Chris: Well then, what does a typical day or week look like for Rev. Stellman?

Rev. Stellman: I spend the first part of the week exegeting the texts that I'm preaching the coming Lord's Day, and by Thursday I hopefully have a couple rough skeletal outlines, which I add some flesh to on Fridays. Mixed in there are random meetings with church members and/or interested visitors, trips to Starbucks, and a little TV to unwind at the end of the day.

Chris: You used to have a rather awkward schedule one akin to my own. Are you still a "night owl'? If so why do you think you're wired as such or why is that the best time for you?

Rev. Stellman: Funny that you remember that. Yes, I am very much a night owl, and must force myself to go to bed by 2am.

Chris: Of course I remember. It can be very discouraging at times when the rest of your peers maintain a "normal" schedule and you a not so "normal" one. I remember being encouraged that I wasn't the only one that works best late into the night. I felt like I got a certificate of approval when I found out about your nocturnal habits. /smile

Chris: Do you read a lot? Are you a mark in your book kind of guy? We want to know about you as a reader. Can you speak to this?

Rev. Stellman: Yes, I read quite a bit, and I usually mark in my books if they're theological in nature, but not so much in others (especially when they're borrowed from the local library).

Chris: *laughs

Rev. Stellman: I find that my reading tastes follow certain waves or patterns that may last a few weeks or several months. For example, I was on a "social criticism" kick for quite a while last year. So I read everything from the lighthearted stuff by David Brooks (Bobos in Paradise, On Paradise Drive) to some weightier works by Juliet Schor, Paul Stiles, Neil Postman, and Joel Bakan. But after reading so many books that point out how messed up our culture is, one can understandably become rather irritable. So I need to change things up occasionally and move on to some fiction or pastoral theology. I like reading sermons in the morning to start the day.

Chris: What's Rev. Stellman currently reading?

Rev. Stellman: I'm working through Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States as well as his A Power Governments Cannot Suppress. I also have recently finished Understanding Power: The Indispensable Chomsky. On a lighter note, I am also finishing up Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs (the book, not that actual things) by Chuck Klosterman IV, who is another social critic.

Chris: What does Rev. Stellman do to keep the heart aflame?

Rev. Stellman: Beyond the obvious (studying the Bible) I try to read pastoral theology, and especially sermons (often Spurgeon, currently Vos).

Chris: Watching your transformation from a Calvary Chapel pastor to successfully tackling the academic rigors at seminary at Westminster Seminary in Escondido, CA to being a minister in the PCA, its all quite encouraging if you come from a similar background. Your story gives hope. Would you briefly walk our readers through your experience?

Rev. Stellman: It's a long story (the Calvary Chapel part of which can be read HERE. As for the rest, I knew that once my wife and I returned from the mission field that I wanted to continue to pastor, but as a newly Reformed guy I didn't want to simply replicate Calvary Chapel's ecclesiology with TULIP tacked on at the end (which I would have done if I had just "started a church" with no formal training). So I enrolled at Westminster Seminary California, and it was three of the best years of my life which I wouldn't trade for anything. It was really hard though….

Chris: Do you have plans to pursue further academic studies? If so what are they? Can we look forward to seeing a Dr. Jason Stellman?

Rev. Stellman: I have thought about how much I would love to continue my education, but with a brand new church plant, a two year-old, and another child due in March, I think I may wait just a tad longer. A year maybe?

Chris: Your number of contributions to your blog De Regnis Duobus: Cult, Culture, and the Christian's Dual Citizenship, is very impressive. Is there a writing career in the future? What project would you like to work on next?

Rev. Stellman: Writing papers was always my favorite part of seminary, and I still love to write. I am working with the folks at Presbyterian and Reformed Publications on a book idea that I hope will eventually see the light of day.

Chris: What do you think is the theological controversy of our day is and is the church properly addressing the issues?

Rev. Stellman: I am tempted to say that the Federal Vision issue is potentially one of the church's biggest dangers, but much more dire (mainly because of its widespread influence) is the American, evangelical idea that the church is supposed to wield a kind of power not unlike that of the world. Christianity works best as an "underdog religion," but as Americans we're not very good at being underdogs. So we craft a vision for the church that is very triumphalistic and focused on taking society back for Christ and getting "our people" into office, all of which just seems like an attempt to avoid the kind of suffering that Jesus and the apostles endured and told us to expect. For my own part, this widespread insistence on the part of many evangelicals to fight for their rights is a misguided eschatology at best, and a denial of the cross at worst.

Chris: As you may or may not know when we interview someone we usually will ask a "Dinger" question; a question that is a little uncomfortable to ask, we call it "being twothed!" Rev. Stellman here is your Dinger:

It doesn't take a person long to see there is an "apparent" agenda under-girding all of your work of late. A lot of your writings and sermons have to do with areas dealing with Biblical Theology and the related themes of "being in exile." The church you're a minister in is even called "Exile" Presbyterian Church. Is this a conscience effort? The current controversy regarding "Federal Vision" must be creating sparks your way. Could you speak to any of this?

Rev. Stellman: Hang on a sec, are you saying that all this "exile" stuff is planned? How DARE you, sir!

Just kidding, of course. One thing that I have come to understand over the last seven years or so is just how much one's eschatology affects all other areas of one's theology. The concept of exile generally, and the name Exile Presbyterian Church specifically, are both very amillennial if you think about it. Amillennialism is not just about when the so-called "thousand-year reign" occurs in relation to the second coming, but, more broadly, it is sort of shorthand for "suffering in this age, glory in the next." So the church vision and identity that I am trying to craft focuses significantly on the idea that believers in this present age are but pilgrims and sojourners (to use another two of the NT's terms) whose hope is not the transformation of Adamic culture by means of political or social efforts, but "a new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells."

On the Federal Vision controversy, yes, it has reached this neck of the woods (in fact, one of its main proponents is a member of our presbytery). Without going into too much detail, I would say that I certainly sympathize with the FV men concerning the dangers they have identified within American Christianity, and I am all for a more redemptive historical reading of Scripture and a high view of baptism. But when I read what they have been saying about the relationship of works to justification, I can't help but wonder if their solution isn't worse than the problem they were originally trying to solve.

Chris: Congratulations Rev. Stellman you've been Twothed! Your Twoth relic is in the mail!

Chris: Any last thoughts?

Rev. Stellman: No, but thanks for "giving me the last word." Bill O'Reilly would be proud….

Chris: Thank you for taking the time to dialog with me for this interview. I was blessed to be able to do ministry with you in Europe and equally honored to interview you several years later. May God continue to grant you strength as you seek to glorify him.


--------------------------------------- Interview by: Chris Rehers of twoth.com -------------------------------------

*All introductory biographical information has been taken from Rev. Stellman's church site.:
To read more about Rev. Stellman and his work please visit Clicky


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